Narelle Fraser Interviews Black Salmon

I’d never met or spoken with Robin (Rob) Bailey until a few weeks ago. Rob had been a member of Victoria Police for almost 30 years but our paths never crossed. He retired at the rank of Chief Inspector after working in some of the toughest squads, including the Armed Robbers. 
You wouldn’t normally associate toughness with Fraud, but today you will learn what it takes to be a top investigator and it doesn’t necessarily involve murders &and rapes. Rob was a specialist Forensic Fraud Investigator and did an aggregate of 11 years with the VicPol Fraud Squad at 3 ranks. Today he takes us into a complicated, what he describes as a “basically uninvestigable” messy file he was handed and asked to have a look at, which contained a plethora of fraudulent insurance claims, false personal injury claims, kickbacks & many more twists & turns. 
 
Apart from this ‘basically uninvestigable’ file, for which 17 people were ultimately charged, Rob was involved in many high profile investigations including being a vital (and seriously injured) witness to the Russell Street bombing outside the Police station in March 1986, he was part of an Australian peacekeeping mission for the 1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus, he’s authored a book “So you Want to be a Policeman Eh" & so much more I frankly don’t have the time to share with you.
 
Not surprisingly, Rob, like so many other Police, still bears the mental scars of his time as a Policeman and has become a fierce advocate for those who don’t have a voice or can’t find one. He’s not out of the woods, like many of us, but has learned to manage his mental health. Rob believes many deaths of Police veterans may not be as innocuous as initially determined which is why he is so passionate in reaching out to members who’ve retired, often broken, never having admitted it to their families & loved ones, let alone themselves, that ‘the job’ has damaged them. 
 
There’s so many investigations I’d love to chat to Rob about and I’m sure we’ll have Rob back, but today we’re going to talk about that fascinating, intriguing fraud investigation I touched on before.  


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You wouldn’t believe that we’re recording this the day after the Victims of Crime Commissioner here in Victoria released her report titled ‘Silenced and Sidelined” which was a disturbing report/insight into how victims of crime are treated by the justice system – from their initial report to Police through to their experience in the court system and how we can improve that experience.  It was disturbing reading.  My guest today Tammy Casselson’s story just highlights and confirms what the Victim of Crime Commission found in her report.  What REALLY frustrates me is the fact that since 2016 there have been 7 reports into how victims are treated in the justice system and what can be done to improve their experience.  With all due respect to Fiona McCormack, the Victims of Crime Commissioner, nothing seems to have changed.  We just seem to be going round & round in circles.  And Tammy’s story is proof of that……………
Tammy Casseslon had it all – or so it appeared.  A carefree, happy childhood, happy upbringing, meets Mr Handsome, Mr Popular, Mr Nice Guy, Mr Life of the Party who also had a carefree happy childhood & happy upbringing. A happy life, right??!!  Tammy & her husband had 2 adorable children and everything just seemed perfect. 
But behind closed doors Tammy didn’t “have it all”.  She was frightened.  Her husband’s behaviour was becoming more unpredictable – his bursts of anger, his yelling, his insults & his threats, not only towards her, but their children.
Mr Handsome had become Mr Narcissist, Mr Abusive, Mr Vindictive, Mr Controlling, Mr Demeaning.   Like so many other survivors of D&FV, Tammy made excuses for his behaviour, not recognising or understanding the seriousness of his increasingly violent behaviour.  It wasn’t until an ill-fated attempt at taking his own life and ending up in hospital, Tammy found the courage to leave.  That’s when she realised his abuse had included financial abuse & discovered their finances were in shatters, non-existent.  He’d kept it secret from her that they had nothing – and Tammy and her children were homeless.  But homelessness was a safer option than staying. 
How does a successful, educated professional woman with a background in counselling, psychology, & teaching become homeless?
Tammy was dragged through the court system where all the games her husband could have played, he did – along with his legal representatives whom she felt belittled and intimidated by.
Tammy’s husband eventually did end his life but left a lot of heartache & “what ifs”.  ‘What if’ they could have tried some type of amicable reconciliation, ‘what if’ their children & their father could have mended some of the damaged relationship, ‘what if’ he’d sought some help – his death became a senseless  void unable to be filled.  All because he refused to seek help. 

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You wouldn’t believe that we’re recording this the day after the Victims of Crime Commissioner here in Victoria released her report titled ‘Silenced & Sidelined” which was a disturbing report/insight into how victims of crime are treated by the justice system – from their initial report to Police through to their experience in the court system & how we can improve that experience. It was disturbing reading. My guest today Tammy Casselson’s story just highlights & confirms what the Victim of Crime Commission found in her report. What REALLY frustrates me is the fact that since 2016 there have been 7 reports into how victims are treated in the justice system & what can be done to improve their experience. With all due respect to Fiona McCormack, the Victims of Crime Commissioner, nothing seems to have changed. We just seem to be going round & round in circles. And Tammy’s story is proof of that……………
Tammy Casseslon had it all – or so it appeared. A carefree, happy childhood, happy upbringing, meets Mr Handsome, Mr Popular, Mr Nice Guy, Mr Life of the Party who also had a carefree happy childhood & happy upbringing. A happy life, right??!! Tammy & her husband had 2 adorable children & everything just seemed perfect. 
But behind closed doors Tammy didn’t “have it all”. She was frightened. Her husband’s behaviour was becoming more unpredictable – his bursts of anger, his yelling, his insults & his threats, not only towards her, but their children.
Mr Handsome had become Mr Narcissist, Mr Abusive, Mr Vindictive, Mr Controlling, Mr Demeaning.  Like so many other survivors of D&FV, Tammy made excuses for his behaviour, not recognising or understanding the seriousness of his increasingly violent behaviour. It wasn’t until an ill-fated attempt at taking his own life & ending up in hospital, Tammy found the courage to leave. That’s when she realised his abuse had included financial abuse & discovered their finances were in shatters, non-existent. He’d kept it secret from her that they had nothing – & Tammy & her children were homeless. But homelessness was a safer option than staying. 
How does a successful, educated professional woman with a background in counselling, psychology, & teaching become homeless?
Tammy was dragged through the court system where all the games her husband could have played, he did – along with his legal representatives whom she felt belittled & intimidated by.
Tammy’s husband eventually did end his life but left a lot of heartache & “what ifs”. ‘What if’ they could have tried some type of amicable reconciliation, ‘what if’ their children & their father could have mended some of the damaged relationship, ‘what if’ he’d sought some help – his death became a senseless void unable to be filled. All because he refused to seek help.  

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Last year I interviewed Peter ‘Lucky’ Lukaitis a Policeman from Castlemaine, who was involved in a siege at Kangaroo Flat, here in Victoria, where 4 Police were shot (thankfully all survived). There were many heroic efforts on this day which have resulted in a number of bravery awards, not only for Police, but also members of the public who put their own lives at risk to assist Police who had been shot and lay injured, unable to move. After a 19hr stand off, the SOG were deployed and located the gunman, John Wason, deceased in his home after turning his gun on himself. 
 
One of the Policeman shot (not once but twice) was Senior Constable Peter Eames, my guest today. Peter was one of the first to arrive at the scene & was attempting to converse with the gunman when he was shot, first in the chest & then in his leg.  Miraculously Peter survived, as did the other 4 Police who were subsequently shot.   This siege remains the single largest number of Police shot in the one incident in Victoria’s history. 
 
But on talking to Peter, the siege pales into insignificance (would you believe) compared with the trauma and grief he endured in Egypt on 12th January 2006. 
 
Peter was part of a 90 strong contingent of Australians, made up of police and emergency workers and their friends and relatives, who were on a professional and cultural exchange with Egyptian police, organised through the Egyptian Federation of Victoria and organised twice a year since 1990.
 
Peter was on a bus which overturned on a desert road around 45k from Cairo where 6 people died, 2 of those being Peter’s B-I-L Mark and nephew Drew. Many more were injured. Peter miraculously survived (again!!) and was taken to Cairo hospital for treatment for broken bones/ribs, cuts and bruises.
Welcome Peter and thanks so much for your time

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Last year I interviewed Peter ‘Lucky’ Lukaitis a Policeman from Castlemaine, who was involved in a siege at Kangaroo Flat, here in Victoria, where 4 Police were shot (thankfully all survived). There were many heroic efforts on this day which have resulted in a number of bravery awards, not only for Police, but also members of the public who put their own lives at risk to assist Police who had been shot and lay injured, unable to move. After a 19hr stand off, the SOG were deployed and located the gunman, John Wason, deceased in his home after turning his gun on himself. 
 
One of the Policeman shot (not once but twice) was Senior Constable Peter Eames, my guest today. Peter was one of the first to arrive at the scene & was attempting to converse with the gunman when he was shot, first in the chest & then in his leg.  Miraculously Peter survived, as did the other 4 Police who were subsequently shot.   This siege remains the single largest number of Police shot in the one incident in Victoria’s history. 
 
But on talking to Peter, the siege pales into insignificance (would you believe) compared with the trauma and grief he endured in Egypt on 12th January 2006. 
 
Peter was part of a 90 strong contingent of Australians, made up of police and emergency workers and their friends and relatives, who were on a professional and cultural exchange with Egyptian police, organised through the Egyptian Federation of Victoria and organised twice a year since 1990.
 
Peter was on a bus which overturned on a desert road around 45k from Cairo where 6 people died, 2 of those being Peter’s B-I-L Mark and nephew Drew. Many more were injured. Peter miraculously survived (again!!) and was taken to Cairo hospital for treatment for broken bones/ribs, cuts and bruises.
Welcome Peter and thanks so much for your time


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Kathleen Folbigg was convicted for the deaths of her 4 young children (all babies) in NSW over a 10 year period and in 2003 was convicted of the murder of 3 of them and manslaughter of one child. 
Always maintaining her innocence, she was initially sentenced to 40yrs in prison (reduced to 30yrs on appeal) however after 2 decades in jail, she was pardoned and in Dec 2023 had her convictions quashed following a judicial inquiry that found there was reasonable doubt with regard to her guilt. That finding was informed by new scientific evidence that had been unavailable at the time of her trial and other crucial evidence relating to Folbigg’s diaries which were presented by the prosecution as akin to confessions.
We’ll chat a little about this case but what I’m more interested in is how Dr Williams feels about the way media cover criminal processes such as Kathleen Folbigg’s trials, how they portray criminals and the influence (and danger) they can have in swaying public opinion.

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