Journey Into Yoga Cults Yoga Cults Podcasters

This interview is with Shelley Carroll (formerly Lowther) who has been one of the first Baptiste affiliate studio owners to publicly bow out of Baptiste Yoga and tell you why in this conversation.
Alos be sure to read her blog post from Feb. 2022 entitled "Call your Dad, you're in a yoga cult": https://dancingdogsyoga.com/blog/call-your-dad-youre-in-a-yoga-cult
Shelley shows that it can be done, step away from harmful practices, apologize for harm done, take accountability and do better moving forward. Thank you Shelley for sharing your courage with us!
Bio: Shelley is a future expatriate but current Atlantian. She is the founder of Dancing Dogs Yoga, the DDY Yoga School, and DDY Travels. Shelley has trained hundreds of yoga teachers world-wide and is passionate about creating teachers and leaders to share the practice of yoga. Shelley is a Chopra Center Certified Ayurvedic Practitioner and runs DDY Travels, a yoga travel retreat company with curated yoga and wellness retreats around the globe.  A self-described activist, Shelley went from a volunteer with ACLU to running the ACLU of Georgia’s Legal Observer Program, where she trained and deploys legal observers in cases of protests, civic actions, and elections. Shelley is a kale-smoothie-drinking, goal-smashing junkie who believes in people and community. When she isn’t traveling the globe or saving democracy with the ACLU, Shelley lives in historic Reynoldstown in Atlanta, GA with her awesome dog, Holli and can often be found drinking coffee, eating pickles, and strolling the Beltline.

What a treat to start our season 2 with A Little Bit Culty podcast hosts (and NXIVM cult survivors) Sarah Edmonson and Nippy Ames!

Sarah Edmondson is a Canadian actress who has starred in the CBS series Salvation and more than twelve films for the Hallmark Channel and Lifetime. She is also a well-established voice-over artist for popular series such as Transformers: Cybertron and My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. In 2005, when NXIVM, a personal and professional development company, promised to provide the tools and insight Sarah needed to reach her potential, she was intrigued. Over her twelve-year tenure, she went from student to coach and eventually operated her own NXIVM center in Vancouver. Questions kept coming up about the organization’s rules and practices, which came to a head in 2017 when she accepted an invitation from her best friend to join DOS, a “secret sisterhood” within NXIVM.

In 2019, Sarah published Scarred: The True Story of How I Escaped NXIVM, the Cult that Bound My Life, with Kristine Gasbarre. In this tell-all memoir, she shares her story from the moment she takes her first seminar to her harrowing fight to get out. Her full story as a whistleblower is featured in the CBC podcast Uncover: Escaping NXIVM  (downloaded over 25 million times) and The Vow, the critically acclaimed HBO documentary series on NXIVM. Now with the launch of “A Little Bit Culty,” Sarah and her co-host/husband Anthony “Nippy” Ames are keeping the conversation going by discussing the healing process with the help of experts and fellow survivors.

As an aspiring actor and former college athlete, Anthony “Nippy” Ames was drawn to NXIVM’s goals program. In his 12 years with the organization, he rose steadily up the ranks as a teacher, built centers in New York and Vancouver, and even met his now wife, “A Little Bit Culty” co-host Sarah Edmondson there. But when he learned that the company was, in fact, a dangerous cult, he wasted no time in doing exactly what needed to be done: helping burn its carefully constructed public image to the ground.

With NXIVM’s notorious founder now behind bars facing a brisk 120-year sentence, Nippy isn’t planning on going quiet anytime soon. As Executive Producer of the “A Little Bit Culty” podcast, Nippy has come full circle back to what he was born to do: performing, creating, and truth telling. He’s proving to be an emerging voice in the conversation around what it means to be an upstanding man, husband, and father in 2021.

Trigger Warning: this episode contains content about sex trafficking. Please take care of your needs regarding this topic or skip this episode if this topic is triggering for you.  

Recruiting and grooming sexual partners, weeding out critics, using harassment and coercion, encouraging others to take expensive courses to further control them are all reasons that prosecutions have proceeded in court in other cases. Listen and hear how some real cases could potentially bring these crimes to justice. What laws are in place to protect women from abuse?  Listen and learn about what is actually sex trafficking and how it is happening when people put trust into a leader and an organization. It really makes you look at how people have been used and how the law can actually protect them.

There are tools for survivors to use Civil Law for federal crimes. "Masha's Law" is written into Title 18 where all the Federal crimes are located. It gives survivors the power to bring their own civil lawsuits against sex offenders who may have abused or exploited them, even if it wasn't reported and police did not arrest. The survivor can still go after that offender. It covers sex trafficking (a broad expansive federal crime meant to protect victims of exploitative abuse) includes "enticement" either in person or online. It's very powerful but also under-used. More than forced prostitution, the federal definition qualifies: makes it illegal for someone to participate in a venture (2 or more people) that uses force, fraud or coercion to subject the victim to engage in a commercial sex act (defined as "in exchange for anything of value" including but not limited to: a free training; moving up in the organization; benefit or status -- and does not have to be a direct contract) or if it's a minor, even if there is no force or coercion needed. Even "demanding absolute commitment" to the leader, or inducing shame and guilt to control the members and their behavior. If you think you may have experienced sexual coercion, abuse or trafficking contact here for support:    www.advocatesforsurvivors.com and https://www.Vanessabaehrjones.com 

Special guest: Vanessa Baehr-Jones Founding partner of Advocates for Survivors of Abuse a woman-owned law firm specializing in seeking justice for survivors of sexual abuse, exploitation, and trafficking Vanessa spent nearly a decade prosecuting child sex offenders and securing restitution for survivors. As the Project Safe Childhood coordinator in Los Angeles, she managed intake of all child exploitation cases in the seven-county district. After leaving Los Angeles, Vanessa served as a federal prosecutor in Northern California, providing expertise on child exploitation and trafficking cases. A skilled trial and appellate attorney, she is fearless in seeking the best outcomes for her clients. Vanessa earned her B.A. summa cum laude from Tufts University, and then served as an intelligence officer for the Defense Intelligence Agency. She holds a law degree from UCLA School of Law. She is a member of the National Crime Victims Bar Association and the American Association for Justice. About Vanessa: https://www.advocatesforsurvivors.com/advocates _____________________________________ 

***The views and opinions expressed on Journey Into Yoga Cults are just that: views and opinions; and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or the hosts. Stories told by hosts and guests are their own personal experiences, viewpoints and perspective. Any content provided by our hosts, guests, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, institution, corporation, business, individual, anyone or anything.*** (thank you @alittlebitculty for letting us borrow your very awesome legal disclaimer)

You asked, we answered. Thank you so much for writing into us and sharing your stories, questions and topic ideas. We are listening.

A peek into this conversation: how to protect people from Baron, real talk about "affiliate studios" businesses, the lack of support from Baron and "The Institute" but lots of encouragement to open open open an affiliate studio, to BE A YES to opening a yoga studio with no concern for the cost or the reality of how you need to be business wise to succeed in this market... and what to do if you are employed by a Baptiste affiliate and you are questioning the harmful practices? How to keep teaching yoga and what to teach in order to stop being harmful and stop perpetuating Baptiste Yoga. Is it possible to still teach for an affiliate and not perpetuate harm? Good questions! Let's talk about it and let us know your thoughts. @yogacultspod

Resources mentioned in the conversation:

The real history of yoga. 

Article: https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/history-of-yoga/10-things-didnt-know-yoga-history/

Books: Roots of Yoga (Penguin Classics) Mallinson, James Sir

Yoga Body: The Origins of Modern Posture Practice Singleton, Mark



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***The views and opinions expressed on Journey Into Yoga Cults are just that: views and opinions; and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or the hosts. Stories told by hosts and guests are their own personal experiences, viewpoints and perspective. Any content provided by our hosts, guests, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, institution, corporation, business, individual, anyone or anything.*** (thank you @alittlebitculty for letting us borrow your very awesome legal disclaimer)

We are thrilled to give you this episode with Rachel Bernstein! Bernstein is a therapist in LA specializing in cult recovery and has worked With India Oxenberg in her healing from the NXIVM cult as well as her mother, Catherine Oxenberg. Her popular podcast, IndoctriNATION has had over 900K listens from all over the world and features regular people who are healing from cults, high control groups and narcissistic relationships. Join us in the conversation as Bernstein helps us to understand how Baptiste Yoga is a system of control and what steps to take to heal from the influence so we don't join another culty group or relationship again.



Rachel Bernstein, MSed, LMFT, has been working with former cult members for nearly 30 years. She is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, and Educator, who lives in Los Angeles, CA. She has been a member of ICSA for many years and has presented talks and moderated panels at ICSA conferences. Rachel previously ran the Maynard Bernstein Resource Center on cults, named after her father. She was the Clinician at the former Cult Clinic in Los Angeles, as well as the Cult Hotline and Clinic in Manhattan. She now treats former cult members and the families and friends of those in cults in her private practice. Rachel has facilitated numerous support groups for former cult members, for people who were in one-on-one cults, and for the families of those in cults. Rachel has published many articles, made media appearances, consulted on shows and movies about cults, and has been interviewed for podcasts and YouTube videos. Rachel is the host of her weekly Podcast, "IndoctriNation," about breaking free from systems of control. RachelBernsteinTherapy.com, bernsteinlmft@gmail.com 818-907-0036



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***The views and opinions expressed on Journey Into Yoga Cults are just that: views and opinions; and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or the hosts. Stories told by hosts and guests are their own personal experiences, viewpoints and perspective. Any content provided by our hosts, guests, sponsors or authors are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, institution, corporation, business, individual, anyone or anything.*** (thank you @alittlebitculty for letting us borrow your very awesome legal disclaimer)

"I'll Fuck Your Head Off!" 
"I'm over here, Gino is over there. My seeing of Gino is happening out there where I am not. There is no 8" Gino in my head"
- Baron Baptiste

Does this sound like advanced-level facilitator training content to you? Well, believe it or not this (and more!) is what we learned in the first “Facilitator In Training” in 2014 (now known as Fit to Lead). 28 of us paid $10K each for the promise that we would be trained directly by Baron to be the successors of the “Baptiste Legacy”, able by the end of the 2-year, 8 weekend-long training, to lead Baptiste programs. We were nervous, excited but quickly learned we were about to get NOTHING we signed up for and could not have imagined how horribly abusive Baron would turn out to be.
All names except Baron Baptiste have been changed to preserve peoples’ privacy and to keep the focus where it belongs - on Baron.
There are so many stories of public humiliation and abuse, including “Liam”  (international yoga teacher)shredded by Baron for (private) pot useage, getting help from his parents and his use of the term “hotel motel, holiday inn” to describe a yoga black. Baron required participation in 40 days because he thought we needed to lose weight; “CEO” had us create content for free that BY then turned around and SOLD to the general public. As part of our training… We PAID Baron to create content!! A rich drunk participant was praised while a sincere grown man was berated to the point of tears… a person who could not speak English well was made to believe (by Baron) that they could potentially lead programs; speech about your most embarrassing moment; name change, bait-and-switch; addition of Tier 4, teacher at Yoga Journal (pay), creating the content; creating more programs for them to use and charge community members for the programs.“Colleen you’re f****d”. - Baron. The Exorcism of Rick performed by Baron; If this episode doesn’t f*ck your head off, we don’t know what will?!

About the second FIT group and beyond… (Chelle) enrolling more and more people after our FIT… and so much more! Please leave us a 5 star review and DM us at @yogacultspod

"Integrity: Without it Nothing Works" - Michael C. Jensen
https://bit.ly/3ubKPrE