The End of Tourism Chris Christou

On this episode, my guests are Martin Lena and Linda Poppe of Survival International. They join me to discuss “fortress conservation” in the Congo, the issues facing Kahuzi-Biega National Park, and the recent victories of Survival International there.
Linda is a political scientist and director of the Berlin office of Survival International, the global movement for Indigenous peoples' rights. She is also part of Survival’s campaign to Decolonize Conservation, which supports Indigenous peoples, who continue to suffer land theft and human rights abuses in the name of conservation.
Martin is an advocacy officer for Survival International. He primarily works on Survival’s campaign to Decolonize Conservation and has collected testimonies directly from communities facing violations of their rights in the name of conservation. 
Show Notes:
What Conservation Looks like in the Democratic Republic of the Congo
The Evictions of the Batwa
Safari Tourism in DRC Conflict
The Militarization of Conservation in Kahuzi-Biega National Park
Land Guards vs Land Guardians
Organizing Victory! Scrapping French Involvement in Kahuze-Biega
The German Government Continues to Fund the Park
Solidarity: How to Respond / Act in Concert
Homework:
Survival International: French government scraps funding plan for Kahuzi-Biega National Park, citing human rights concerns
Survival International Decolonize Conservation Campaign
Balancing Act: The Imperative of Social and Ecological Justice in Kahuzi-Biega
Transcript:
Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome to the End of Tourism Podcast, Martin and Linda. I'd love it if I could start by asking you two to explain to our listeners where you two find yourselves today and what the world looks like there for you.
Linda: Well, hi everyone. My name is Linda. I work for Survival International and I'm in Berlin. I'm at home, actually, and I look forward to talking to you and chatting with you.
It's dark outside already, but, well, that's, I guess, the time of the year.
Martin: And I'm based in Paris, also at home, but I work at Survival's French office. And how does the world feel right now? It feels a bit too warm for October, but other than that.
Chris: Well, thank you both for for joining me today. I'd like to begin by reminiscing on the season three interview that I had with your colleague Fiore Longo, entitled "Decolonizing Conservation in Africa and Beyond."
And in that interview, we discussed the history [00:01:00] of conservation as colonization in the context of Tanzania and the national parks that were built there and the indigenous lands that were stolen in order to do so. I'm curious if you two could offer a bit of background for our listeners in terms of the history of conservation in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and especially in regards to the Batwa people and the Kahuzi Biega National Park.
Linda: We were quite you know, astonished of the colonial history that, we find in the park where we're here to discuss today. Well, the Congo, obviously, you know, was a colony. And I think in this context, we also need to look at the conservation that is happening in the DRC today.
And a lot of the things that you have discussed with our colleague, feel very true for the DRC as well. And the, the park that we're going to look at today, I think it's probably [00:02:00] also the best example to start to explain a little bit what conservation looks like in DRC. It's an older park, so it was created a longer time ago, and it was always regarded as something that is there to protect precious nature for people to look at and not for people to go and live in.
And this is exactly what the problem is today, which we see continues, that the people that used to live on this land are being pushed outside violently, separated from the land which they call home, which is everything for them, the supermarket, the church, the school, just in the name of conserving supposed nature.
And unfortunately, this is something that we

On this episode, my guest is , a friend and scholar who recently completed his PhD in Cultural Geography from The University of Edinburgh where his research centered on themes of displacement and memorial walking practices in the Highlands of Scotland. A child of Greek political refugees on both sides of his family, Christos' work looks at ways in which ceremony and ritual might afford us the capacity to integrate disconnection from place and ancestry. Further, his research into pre-modern Gaelic Highland culture reveals animistic relationship with mountains which disrupt easy definitions of colonialism and indigeneity.
Show Notes:
Summoning and Summiting a Doctorate
The British Empire & Everest
The Three Roots of Freedom
Hillwalkers and Homecoming
The Consequences of Staying and Leaving
The Romans Make a Desert and Call it Peace
Farming Emptiness
Landscapes as Mediums
Ritualized Acts of Walking
Homework:
Christos Galanis’ Official Website
Transcript:
Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome, Christos, to the End of Tourism podcast.
Christos: Thank you, Chris.
Chris: Thank you for joining me today. Would you be willing to let us know where you're dialing in from today?
Christos: Yeah, I'm calling in from home, which at the moment is Santa Fe, New Mexico in the United States. Yeah, I moved out here for my master's in 2010 and fell in love with it, and and then returned two years ago.
So it's actually a place that does remind me of the Mediterranean and Greece, even though there's no water, but the kind of mountain desert. So there's a familiarity somehow in my body.
Chris: Sounds beautiful. Well I'm delighted to speak with you today about your PhD dissertation entitled "A Mountain Threnody: Hill Walking and Homecoming in the Scottish Highlands." And I know you're working on the finishing touches of the dissertation, but I'd like to pronounce a dear congratulations on that huge feat. I imagine after a decade of research and [00:01:00] writing, that you can finally share this gift, at least for now, in this manner, in terms of our conversation together.
Christos: Thank you. It was probably the hardest thing I've done in my life in terms of a project. Yeah. Nine years.
Chris: And so, you and I met at Stephen Jenkinson's Orphan Wisdom School many years ago. But beyond that from what I understand that you were born and raised in Toronto and Scarborough to Greek immigrants, traveled often to see family in Greece and also traveled widely yourself, and of course now living in New Mexico for some time. I'm curious why focus on Scotland for your thesis?
Christos: It was the last place I thought I would be going to. Didn't have a connection there. So I did my master's down here in Albuquerque at UNM and was actually doing a lot of work on the border with Mexico and kind of Southwest Spanish history.
I actually thought I was going to go to UC San Diego, partly because of the weather and had some connections [00:02:00] there. And two things happened. One was that you have to write your GRE, whatever the standardized test is you need to do for grad school here in the US, you don't have to do in the UK. So that appealed to me.
And it's also, there's no coursework in the UK. So you just, from day one, you're just doing your own research project. And then I wanted to actually work with what Was and probably still is my favorite academic writer is Tim Ingold, who was based in Aberdeen up in the north of Scotland and is kind of that thing where I was like, "well if I'm gonna do a PhD What if I just literally worked with like the most amazing academic I can imagine working with" and so I contacted him. He was open to meeting and possibly working together and so I was gonna fly to Scotland.
I was actually spending the winter in Thailand at the time, so I was like, if I'm gonna go all the way to Scotland, maybe I should check out a couple more universities. So, I looked at St. Andrews, which is a little bit north of Edinburgh, and then Edinburgh, then vi

My guest on this episode is Healani Sonoda-Pale, a Kanaka Maoli Human Rights advocate for Self-Determination and a Water Protector who has been organizing at the intersection of the indigenous struggle for liberation and environmental protection in Hawai'i. She is a member of the Red Hill Community Representation Initiative and the spokesperson of the Ka Lahui Hawaii Political Action Committee. Healani was born and raised on the island of O'ahu where she resides with her family.
Show Notes:
The Beauty of the Pandemic Shutdown in Hawai’i
The Fallout of the Lahaina Fires in West Maui
No Controls
Manufacturing the Authentic
Reopening for Tourism in the Midst of Catastrophe
Local Schism: Those in Favour and Those Against
The Tourism at the Heart of the Housing Crisis
Ka Lahui Hawai'i Political Action Committee
The Water Crisis in Oahu
Decolonizing Tourism is an Oxymoron
Solidarity with Kanaka Maoli
Homework:
Healani Sonoda-Pale Instagram
Ka Lahui Hawai’i | Twitter
Oahu Water Protectors | Red Hill Community Representation Initiative
Transcript:
Chris: [00:00:00] In the first season of the podcast I spoke to Hokulani Aikau and Vernadette Gonzalez about the attempts to decolonize tourism in the Hawaiian islands. And following that Kaleo Patterson. Who offered a deeper historical and cultural background into the ongoing us occupation of Hawaii. The military industrial tourism complex, and some of the traditional forms of hospitality that Hawaiians have engaged in. Since then, and especially because of the wildfires that spread through west Maui this past summer. Listeners have asked again and again, to return to the islands, to host the voices of those. They're now struggling with another catastrophe. Who are offering resilience and resistance. In the face of these enduring consequences. And as such, I welcome.Healani Sonoda-Pale to the pod. Thank you for joining me today, Healani.
Healani: It's my pleasure to be joining this podcast and to help [00:01:00] spread the message about tourism in Hawai'i.
Chris: Healani, could you do us the favor of elaborating a bit on where you're speaking from today and how the world looks like for you?
Healani: Okay. So I'm a Kanaka Maoli woman, born and raised in Hawai'i on the island of O'ahu. I have been in the Hawaiian movement for liberation and self determination for nearly 30 years. I am a student of Dr. Haunani-Kay Trask, and I am on the front lines of many, many issues. The issues that we face today are, many of them are a consequence of tourism.
The desecration of cultural sites. The degradation of our beautiful beaches pollution, traffic, overcrowding, the high cost of living in Hawai'i, the extremely high cost of housing in Hawai'i. These are all because of tourism. This is happening to Hawai'i. [00:02:00] As a result, direct result of the tourist industry, which Hawaii relies on.
And in Hawaii, we have two businesses. We have the military industrial complex and the tourist industry. Those are the two worst industries to rely on, number one. And they are the most exploitive and extractive industries to have. They do not enhance our way of life here on, on these islands in Hawaii.
They do the opposite. They have brought many of us to the brink where we are now, most of us living paycheck to paycheck. The average cost of a house in Hawaii is a million dollars.
I believe Honolulu is the number one or at least the top three most expensive cities in the United States to live in. So tourism is a plague in Hawaii. It is a plague upon this place and it has caused us to [00:03:00] struggle on a daily basis, not just financially and not just socially, mentally as well.
Having to deal with tourists on a daily basis in Hawaii is frustrating, so that's kind of like the space I'm coming from. I am involved with the water issue, protecting our water, which is now something that is a huge issue. I'm very much involved in the Red Hill issue. I'm involved with protecting Iwi Kūpuna, which is our t

On this episode, my guests are and of the Podcast.
Clementine Morrigan is a writer and public intellectual based in Montréal, Canada. She writes popular and controversial essays about culture, politics, ethics, relationships, sexuality, and trauma. A passionate believer in independent media, she’s been making zines since the year 2000 and is the author of several books. She’s known for her iconic white-text-on-a-black-background mini-essays on Instagram. One of the leading voices on the Canadian Left and one half of the F*****g Cancelled podcast, Clementine is an outspoken critic of cancel culture and a proponent of building solidarity across difference. She is a socialist, a feminist, and a vegan for the animals and the earth.
Jay is a writer, artist and designer from Montreal and is the author of the Substack jaylesoleil.com and the zine series What Else Is There to Live For. Jay is also the co-host of F*****g Cancelled.
Show Notes:
Clementine & Jay’s Travels
The Nexus
Identitarianism and Identity Politics
Gentrification & Solidarity
How Nationalism Leaks into the Left
The Contradictions of Identitarianism
Freedom, Limits and Guesthood
Borders and Biomes
The Quest for Offline Communities
Radical & Reciprocal Hospitality
Authenticity
Homework:
Clementine’s Substack
Jay’s Substack (including Dumplings & Domination)
Clementine’s Shop
Jay’s Store
F*****g Cancelled Shop
F*****g Cancelled Podcast
Transcript
Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome to the pod, Clementine and Jay. It's an honor to have you both here today. Each of your work both individually and together has been a great influence on mine and definitely eye-opening and if I can say so much needed in our time. So thank you for joining me.
Jay: Thank you, man. Thanks for having us.
Clementine: Thanks for having us.
Chris: So, I'd like to start, if we can, by asking you both where you find yourselves today and what the world looks like for you through each of your eyes.
Jay: Well, we both find ourselves in Montreal which is where we live. I was working in homeless shelters for years and then I got let go cause I tried to unionize the one I was working at. Actually I succeeded in unionizing the one I was working at. And they mysteriously did not have any money to renew my contract after that.
And yeah, so I'm writing and I just launched a new solo podcast about like world history outside of the West. And so I've been working on that. It's called [00:01:00] dumplings and domination, which are two things that human beings love. And Yeah, so that's, that's what I'm up to.
Clementine: Yeah, so I'm also, yeah, I find myself in Montreal, in the snow, and I guess, relevant to the topics of this podcast one of the things I'm grappling with now is my perpetual existence as a unilingual anglophone in the city of Montreal, which is a bilingual city, but it's a French city, like.
Actually. And I'm planning on having a child and I'm planning to have this child here. And so I'm facing the dilemma of being like an English speaker whose child is not going to just be an English speaker. And so I really need to learn French, basically. So this is my struggle, because being 37 and only speaking one language my entire life, it's like super hard to learn another language.
And I've really, really struggled. A couple times I've made an attempt to learn French, and it's like really [00:02:00] frustrating, but that is one of the things I'm grappling with. I feel like it's relevant to the podcast, because in many ways, even though I've lived in Montreal for like almost seven years, there's a way in which I still am kind of like a tourist here, because I haven't learned the language.
So, will I complete my transition into becoming Quebecois?
Chris: Yeah, maybe so.
Jay: Only time will tell.
Chris: I was just reading this biography of Ivan Illich, who's like was an Austrian philosopher and he said that like trying to learn a new language, especially if you're immersed in the place

On this episode, my guest is David Bacon, a California writer and documentary photographer. A former union organizer, today he documents labor, the global economy, war and migration, and the struggle for human rights. His latest book, In the Fields of the North / En los campos del norte (COLEF / UC Press, 2017) includes over 300 photographs and 12 oral histories of farm workers. Other books include The Right to Stay Home and Illegal People, which discuss alternatives to forced migration and the criminalization of migrants. Communities Without Borders includes over 100 photographs and 50 narraatives about transnational migrant communities and The Children of NAFTA is an account of worker resistance on the US/Mexico border in the wake of NAFTA.
Show Notes:
David’s Early Years
Learning about Immigration through Unions
The Meaning of Being Undocumented
NAFTA and Mexican Migration
The Source of Corn / Maize
Binational Front of Indigenous Organizations / Frente Indigena de Organizacaions Binacionales
The Right to Stay Home
Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador (AMLO) Campaign
The Face & History of Immigration in the USA
Immigration Reform and Amnesty
The Violence of Fortuna Silver Mines in Oaxaca
Solidarity, Change and Optimism
Homework:
The Right to Stay Home: How US Policy Drives Mexican Migration
In the Fields of the North / En los campos del norte
Illegal People: How Globalization Creates Migration and Criminalizes Immigrants
Communities without Borders: Images and Voices from the World of Migration
The Children of NAFTA: Labor Wars on the U.S./Mexico Border
David’s Twitter Account
David’s Official Website
Transcript:
Chris: [00:00:00] Welcome to the End of Tourism podcast, David. It's an honor to have you on the pod. To begin, I'd like to ask you where you find yourself today and what the world looks like for you there.
David: Well, I live in Berkeley, here in California, and I am sitting in front of my computer screen having just what I've been up to today before talking with you.
Chris: Hmm. Well, thank you so much for joining us, and thank you for your work. Perhaps I could ask you what drew you to the issues of labor and migration.
David: Sure. Well, I come from a kind of left wing union family, so I knew about unions and workers and strikes and things like that from probably since before I can remember. And so I was kind of an activist when I was in high school, got involved in the [00:01:00] student movement in the 1960s at the University of California, got involved in the free speech movement, got tossed out by the university, actually, and wound up going to work after that, really, because I got married, had a daughter, and I got married, had a daughter, and, I needed to get a job and, you know, worked for quite a while as a a printer in the same trade that my father was, had been in went back to night school to learn more of the, of the trade, how to do different parts of it, how to run presses and so forth and then got involved, this is, you know, in the late 60s, early 70s got involved in the movement to support farm workers, really, and I was one of those people, you know, if you're my age, you remember this, if you're younger, you probably don't, but we used to picket supermarkets to try to get them [00:02:00] to stop selling the grapes and the wine and the lettuce that was on strike, and we would stand out in front of Safeway and other supermarkets with our red flags with the black eagle on them, And ask customers, you know, not to go into the store, not to buy the products that farmworkers were on strike against.
And I got really interested in. I'm curious about the workers that we were supporting. You know, I grew up in Oakland and so I didn't know anything about farm workers, really. I didn't know anything about rural California, rural areas, didn't speak Spanish didn't know much about Chicano, Latinos.
Oakland's a pretty diverse city, but in the area of Oakland where I grew up in you know, in our high school,

On this episode of The End of Tourism Podcast, my guest is Macià Blázquez-Salom, a professor at the University of the Balearic Islands, who specializes in the Geography of Tourism, Territorial Planning, Sustainability and Degrowth. He utilizes his teaching and research activity in the environmental movement (and vice versa), and through his activism in the Grupo Balear de Ornitología y Defensa de la Naturaleza (GOB) and Alba Sud.
Show Notes
Macia’s Journey in the Balearics
The Beginning of Mass Tourism through Currency Devaluation
Contradictions in Mallorca
Cocoon Tourism in Spain
You Want to Work in the Balearics, You Have to Sleep in a Tent
Boosterism and Green Boosterism
Degrowth Definitions and Contradictions
Imagining Other Modes of Travel
Imagining Other Modes of Resistance
Homework
Google Scholar: Macia Blasquez
Orcid: Connecting Researchers with Researchers
Macia Blasquez’s UIB Site
Transcript
[00:00:00] Chris: Welcome Macia, to the podcast. From what I've been able to dig up around your life and work that you've been studying, tourism and its contradictions for a very long time. Now, I'd like to ask you what drove you towards a career as a professor and critic of the tourism industry?
[00:00:24] Macia: Well, in fact, even before finishing my degree, I was involved in social movements here in the Balearics, in Mallorca, particularly. I was member of the committee of the volunteers collaborating with the GOB, which is the biggest ecologist group. Then by the eighties and perhaps influenced by this collaboration, I decided to study geography and to analyze the relation in between tourism and natural conservation, because by then we had promotion after the tourism boom in the sixties and seventies.
The eighties Spain became member of the European Union and some of our politicians, they decided and they were promoting the Balearics as second residents destination for north European people, and this means that investment in the real estate market even increased with foreign people buying second residencies and promoting as well the promotion of more urban development for this purpose.
And that was written in the natural areas due to what we call "green" or "gray-grabbing" with new facilitation of land here in the Balearics. And this was the main aim I had to develop my research on this topic, with special planning and natural conservation in the Balearics.
Afterwards we had what we called the real estate bubble that began in the nineties and burst in 2008. And that was a period when I was more involved, particularly in the social movements. In fact I feel more related with activism than with academia. After the crisis with my age, I took the decision of giving support to younger people in the social movements and devote more time to the academia with colleagues Ivan Murray or Ernest Canada or Robert Fletcher or Nora Muller, other people who are working in this research group in the University of the Balearics Islands. But I still working with the NGOs Alba Sud, particularly the GOB, and other social movements in this region in the Western Mediterranean region particularly.
[00:03:03] Chris: I have some questions regarding these social movements that I think maybe we'll get to in just a bit.
But, I'd like to try to offer a bit of context for our listeners in part because before I heard of your name and before I interviewed our mutual friend Ivan, for the first episode of the podcast, I don't think I had ever heard of Palma or Mallorca before, even as someone who had traveled through Europe and many other parts of the Mediterranean.
And so I'm curious if you could give us a bit of background on how Palma came to be over touristed, or at the very least, what you've seen come to pass in your time there. I mean, I know it's, it is also historically has a lot of deep importance for the Spanish state and Mediterranean history culture.
[00:03:55] Macia: I'm sure you have heard about the dictatorship of Franco in the fort