PRmoment Podcast PRmoment

Welcome to the PRmoment Podcast. 
On the show today, I’m chatting with Jules Herd. Jules is the founder of PR agency Five in a Boat, which she started six years ago. It’s a tech PR firm with a fee income of about £750K. The business mainly does reputation advisory work, so it is at the more serious end of the PR spectrum. Looking to the future, Five is a Boat is looking to double in size and wants to launch in San Francisco in the short term.


Five in a Boat has grown for five years since its launch, but like many tech PR firms worldwide, it has had a tougher last twelve months or so.


If you’re wondering, the name Five in a Boat is a nod to Jule’s rowing prowess!


On the show today, Jules and I will discuss whether UK PR agency founders have lost their confidence in recent times and no doubt we’ll chat about a bunch of other stuff.


Before we start, a plug for our new subscription training service for senior folks within agencies' PRmoment Leaders. The line-up of speakers for the first semester is now complete, and even if I say it myself - it’s almost perfect!


Do take a look at our latest PR Masterclass: PR and AI. I’m tremendously excited about it because we've filtered out the snake oil salesmen, the bluffers, and the AI dead ends to create it. It really is an exceptional programme of speakers. It’s only been live for a couple of days but already tickets are going quickly.


If you're wondering why you should attend?


Well, AI is going to impact all of our businesses. Whether you’ve already begun your professional AI journey or if you're looking for advice on where to start - this Masterclass will help you.


At this one event, 12 experts will give 10 Masterclasses on PR & AI. All the details are on the PRmoment.com homepage.


Finally, thanks so much to the PRmoment Podcast sponsors the PRCA.


Here’s a summary of what Julia and PRmoment founder Ben Smith discuss:


2 mins Why does Julia think UK PR firms have lost their entrepreneurial confidence?


“There has been a reticence to take risks since COVID, work environments have changed and people have become more reliant on being able to have a better work-life balance, which I’m an advocate of. The downside to that is the sense of ambition has dissipated.”


7 mins Are UK PR firms losing their ambition?


“There’s not this drive that there was five years ago on the sector.”


“(In the UK) the younger generation…if you come last in a race, you get a medal.  If you apply that to the business world, that isn't good. Business is about elite performance.”


9 mins Being aggressive in business is much easier if a) you’ve got lots of money in the back or b) you're spending someone else’s money. Most PR agency founders in the start-up stage don’t have those luxuries, do they?


“Failure is not trying at all… Nothing is going to be perfect in life.”


“50% our our clients are non UK clients.”


“We get most of our new saints through cold calls.”


12 mins The games industry made up 70% of Five in a Boats fee income 12-18 months ago. That sector has cut back on its PR spending heavily. How has Five in a Boat managed that shift from one sector to other areas of work?

On the show today, I’m chatting with Will Hart, who is the CEO of PRmoment Leaders.
Before becoming CEO of PRmoment Leaders, Will was the group MD of Unlimited Group and, before that, the managing director of PR agency Nelson Bostock for over ten years.
Will joined PRmoment in January this year to lead its subscription training programme for agency directors - PRmoment Leaders.
The first semester of masterclasses has just been released and includes the following themes:
How to build and develop your agency business
Rachel Bell, founder, Brand Spanking
How to improve the diversity, inclusion and retention of PR teams
Sheeraz Gulsher, co-founder, People Like Us and Braver
How to lead a pitch more effectively
Kat McGettigan, founder, Fine Lines
The financial controls you need in a modern PR firm
Adrian Talbot, CFO, Miroma Group, Formerly Global CEO of Hotwire
How do you build a great agency team?
Frankie Cory, ex co-CEO, W Communications

What is the contribution of comms in the modern corporate world?
Bruce McLachlan, director, Consumer Communications, International, Amazon
What does a great agency: client partnership look like?
Sian O’Keefe, Vice President of Corporate Affairs, Mars Wrigley Europe, CIS and Turkey
Holly Clarke, regional senior manager - consumer PR, Mars Wrigley
Finally, thanks so much to the PRmoment Podcast sponsors the PRCA.
Here's a summary of what Will and PRmoment founder discussed:
4 mins: In partnership with our friends at Censuswide PRmoment, we recently conducted some quantitative research into the attributes of modern PR leaders. Will talks us through the top 5 trends emerging from that research.
PR agency leaders believe in themselves. They have confidence in their abilities.The biggest issue for PR agency leaders is how to handle unrealistic client expectations.PR agency leaders lack confidence in the business of PR and their ability to futureproof the agencyPR Agency leaders want to get out of their own agency’s echo chamberPR agency leaders don’t have enough time15 mins Will has worked in the London PR market for 25 years. When agencies have scaled quickly - what have you observed that they are doing right?
“PR is a team sport.”
16.30 mins Conversely, when agencies fall off that growth line, are there any common traits in terms of the mistakes they make?
“The key to happiness? Make yourself small.”
“So often those second generation (PR agency appointments) don’t quite work.”
“No one goes to work to make the founder a millionaire.”
20 mins What are the skills and attributes of a modern PR leader?
23 mins PR firms have spent the best part of 10 years playing around with their structure to try and replicate the setup of ad agencies. Does hindsight suggest that was a wrong move for PR?
“There’s some magic in the generalist account team-focused PR agency structure.”
“PR planners are some of the best planners on the planet.”
“There’s a beautiful sweet spot between the old-school PR structure and ad agency world (structure.)”
29 mins Will talks us through what PRmoment Leaders is all about and how you hope it can help the PR leaders of tomorrow.
“We’re focussing bespoke training on senior people in PR businesses to prepare them for leadership.”

This week on the PRmoment Podcast, I’m interviewing Mitch Kaye, co-founder and CEO of The Academy, as we look back on ten years since he and Dan Glover launched The Academy.
The Academy is an independent PR firm in London with a fee income of approximately £7m. It has 56 employees and was co-founded by Mitch Kaye and Dan Glover in 2014. 
If you want to join your PR peers, don’t forget to buy your tickets for The PRmoment Awards. The Manchester Awards are on Thursday 11th April and the London Awards are on Thursday 25th April.
3 mins How is the consumer PR market ATM? 
“We’re in a good moment. 2023 was our best ever year and 2024 has started in the same manner…We’re enjoying where we’re at but I do speak to lots of other people who are having a hard time.”
“There’s definitely work out there and there's definitely people winning.“
5 mins It's ten years since Mitch and Dan Glover founded The Academy. When they launched, what was the plan, and how much did they need to adapt that plan?
7 mins Second time around doesn't happen too often with PR founders; most people seem to have only one start-up in them. Why is that, do you think? 
“Ambition is the biggest thing for me.”
8 mins What's been easier the second time around? And what has been harder?
The second time around, “the highs are not as high, the lows are even lower, but you're braver, you're more experienced, and you have seen problems before…so you can call on that body of work.”
10 mins Where is the PR market now compared to 10 years ago?
“PR is in a much better place. It is a brilliant time for consumer PR. As a discipline we take ourselves more seriously and we are taken more seriously.”
“Some agencies now, and I would include us in that, have the ear of much more influential people.”
“The job is more difficult now but more rewarding too.”
16 mins The Academy has had some impressive client wins and the work coming out of the business is very good at the moment. How does an agency get itself in form?
“The hardest thing to do in this business is to win. It’s very, very easy to come second in a pitch.”
19 mins The Academy has a high fee income per head compared to its peers. A PR income ballpark of £100K per head is tough to achieve in consumer PR. And you’ve got a fee income per head of £125K. How have you done that?
“We’re not the cheapest agency on the block. We’ve got great people. We’ve never shied away from that, really.”
21 mins Has The Academy been immune from the decreasing number of retainer client relationships towards increased project income?
“We’ve probably got a disproportionate amount of retainers versus our competitors.”
“We hire ahead of our needs and retainers help you do that…the challenge of retainers is energy.”
23 mins Last year, The Academy had an 80% win rate on 15/20 pitches. When you were at Mischief, you did 70 pitches a year. That's quite a change in strategy.
“If you're pitching three times a week, you’re not spending an awful lot of time with your clients.”
“The biggest opportunity you have is with your existing clients. They've already hired you, they already trust you.”
“Doing three pitches a week is never the answer.  Whatever the question is.“

Welcome to our March 2024 Review of PR Pitches and mergers & acquisitions in the UK PR scene with Andrew Bloch, where we will discuss the biggest, most seismic pitch wins and mergers and acquisitions that the PR sector has seen in 2023.
Andrew is the lead consultant - PR, Social, Content and Influencer at the new business consultancy firm AAR and a partner at PCB Partners, where he advises on buying and selling marketing services agencies.
Andrew launched Andrew Bloch & Associates in 2020.
Before we start, here is a plug for our latest launch:  our new subscription training service for senior folks within agencies' PRmoment Leaders. Do take a look and let us know if you like it.
And if you fancy joining us at the PRmoment Awards in either London or Manchester you need to get your tickets quick.
Thanks also so much to the PRmoment Podcast sponsors the PRCA.
2.30 mins Andrews updates us on this month's PR Pitch wins
Pukka Organic Herbal teas appoint Grayling.
Global Brands (who own VK and Hooch) appoint Prohibition.
Pepsi appoint Hope & Glory.
Taco Bell appoint Earnies
Popeyes appoint The Romans.
Pizza Express appoint Pretty Green
Cook appoint Don’t Cry Wolf.
Carlsberg Group appoint Richmond & Towers for a global PR and social media strategy for Brooklyn Brewery brand.
National Hockey League appoint Mischief.
Casio appoint Kingdom Collective - (Part of Splendid group.)
Nobu Hotel appoint W Communications.
Franks Hot Sauce appoint Pangolin.
18 mins A discussion of the state of the PR new business market at the moment.
“It’s not a bed of roses for everyone, but there is still business out there.”
You have to show resilience and dig deep. ..running an agency is always a bit of a roller coaster. It’s often a question of how quickly you come out of the dips. It's not plain sailing. Anyone who runs an agency and tells you it's a piece of cake, I’d call them a liar.”
19 mins A round-up and discussion of March’s M&A activity.
21 mins Ruder Finn acquire Atteline - expanding its Middle East and global footprint.
Woodrow has formed a partnership with Paris-based Taddeo to expand both organisations' work across the UK and Europe. Jim Donaldson, the former CEO of Fleishman Hillard, joined Woodrow as non-exec chair in February this year.
Stagwell acquire Sidekick. Sidekick launched in 2021 after the merger of experiential agency Kreate and content agency Many Makers.
MHP acquired creative content above-the-line agency La Plage.
Havas acquires Wilderness in its second acquisition this year already.

Braver co-founders Darain Faraz and Mike Levaggi on the PRmoment podcast
Welcome to the PRmoment Podcast. 
On today's show, I’m chatting with two of Braver's co-founders: Darain Faraz and Mike Levaggi.
Previously, Darain spent 11 years in-house at LinkedIn. Mike's career has included roles at Seventy Seven, Hope&Glory and Snap.
Alongside Sheeraz Gulsher, they launched Braver in September last year. Braver is a talent consultancy specialising in helping PR employers increase the diversity of their teams.
Before we start, here is a plug for our latest launch:  our new subscription training service for senior folks within agencies' PRmoment Leaders. Do take a look and let us know if you like it. 
Thanks also so much to the PRmoment Podcast sponsors the PRCA.
Darain and Mike, welcome to the show
3.30 mins Mike talks us through Braver’s approach to trying to help PR with its diversity problem.
6 mins Darain talks us through why he and his brother Sherazz launched People Like Us.
“My brother (Sheeraz) was baffled when he landed in the (PR) industry. He asked what’s going on? Why is it quite so homogeneous?  We should be doing something about this. He was rightly furious. I’d become a bit apathetic about it.”
10 mins Do we believe employers in the PR sector want to be more diverse? 
“The reality is that we’re inching along in our progress… The industry is keen to make progress, but it's not sure how to get there.”
12 mins What is PR’s ethnicity pay gap?
“PR’s ethnicity pay gap is 22.3 %.” 
“There is obviously a point when people leave the sector…from the conversations we’ve had, it's because they have felt they weren't given the same opportunities and promotion at the mid to senior levels. Agencies have to do 2 things: hire intentionally so their workforces more accurately represent the audiences they are communicating to 2) make sure that their workplace gives equal opportunity for people to thrive.”
25 mins How are PR employers trying to become more diverse? What are they getting right? What are they getting wrong?
29 mins What does best practice look like when it comes to increasing the diversity of your PR team?
“For it to be effective, you need an ongoing dialogue between people across your organisation and senior leadership.”
“Public sharing of salary bands is really crucial.  so important. We (Braver) refuse to work on roles where we can’t share the salary.”
33 mins Are Rooney Rule shortlists a good idea in PR?
35 mins Many PR firms are doing better at increasing the diversity of their employees, but are they getting the inclusion part wrong.
42 mins To what extent are clients, through procurement policies, only buying PR from agencies with diverse teams?
“There is a moral imperative.. but ultimately, it is a commercial imperative.”

On the show today, I’m chatting with Jo Ogunleye, B2B Communications Lead at Google UK  and Laura Wheeler, Head of Communications UKI, Middle East, Turkey and Africa, Google Cloud.
Both are B2B communicators, and we’re going to talk about what creativity looks like in B2B communications, how it can be used and how it can be integrated across the appropriate B2B channels.
Thanks to the PRmoment Podcast sponsors, The PRCA.
A quick mention about the relaunch of PRmoment. If you take a look at PRmoment.com, you'll see a brand new design with lots of new features, hopefully, easier navigation and also the launch of our new subscription training service for senior folks within agencies' PRmoment Leaders. Do take a look and let us know if you like it. 
Thanks also so much to the PRmoment Podcast sponsors the PRCA.
Here is a  summary of what Jo and Laura and PRmoment founder discussed:
2 mins Jo and Laura talk about what a modern, integrated approach to B2B communications looks like.
6 mins What are the priority channels for most B2B communications?
“Your company blog or your website should always be your priority channel.”
14 mins A discussion of the rise of influencers within B2B markets
17 mins Is creativity used less in B2B markets because communicators are more risk averse, or is it because of budget?
“Creativity is a critical part of B2B PR…You need to stand out from the crowd. 
…B2B buyers are usually bombarded with information.”
20 mins Why is creativity important in B2B PR? 
21 mins Laura gives some examples of how Google Cloud uses creativity in its B2B campaigns.
28 mins How to craft your B2B campaigns to reach multiple objectives, including impact on sales.
31 mins Does creative content drive more sales in Google’s experience?
38 mins Bearing in mind how specific the target audience is, are B2B campaigns easier to measure?
41 mins As in-house communicators, what is the role of the PR agency in B2B markets? To what extent do you look for creativity in your agency partners in B2B?